Hello all,

I'm wondering if anyone had ever tried using a fifth wheel RV to pull
a glider trailer.

This would make an ideal setup for going to glider contests if the
trailing dynamics were workable. I did a cursory look on the web
yesterday and found a 30 ft fifth wheel that did come equipped with a
trailer hitch.

It also would seem to be a fairly economic plan in that you can buy a
lot more house for your money with a 5th wheel compared to a
motorhome. When you get there, the house is disconnected leaving a
4X4 truck to pull you out of farm fields and run around town.

I'd suspect that a shorter RV with wheels near the aft hitch would
give the best chance of working well.

Steve,

I believe you would exceed length restrictions. California's limits are
defined in the following link:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/trucks/trucksize/ops-guide/legalsize.htm

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com/


"Steve Koerner" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hello all,
>
> I'm wondering if anyone had ever tried using a fifth wheel RV to pull
> a glider trailer.
>
> This would make an ideal setup for going to glider contests if the
> trailing dynamics were workable. I did a cursory look on the web
> yesterday and found a 30 ft fifth wheel that did come equipped with a
> trailer hitch.
>
> It also would seem to be a fairly economic plan in that you can buy a
> lot more house for your money with a 5th wheel compared to a
> motorhome. When you get there, the house is disconnected leaving a
> 4X4 truck to pull you out of farm fields and run around town.
>
> I'd suspect that a shorter RV with wheels near the aft hitch would
> give the best chance of working well.
>

On Mar 26, 8:00 am, "Wayne Paul" > wrote:
> Steve,
>
> I believe you would exceed length restrictions. California's limits are
> defined in the following link:http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/trucks/trucksize/ops-guide/legalsiz...
>
> Waynehttp://www.soaridaho.com/
>
> "Steve Koerner" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
>
>
> > Hello all,
>
> > I'm wondering if anyone had ever tried using a fifth wheel RV to pull
> > a glider trailer.
>
> > This would make an ideal setup for going to glider contests if the
> > trailing dynamics were workable. I did a cursory look on the web
> > yesterday and found a 30 ft fifth wheel that did come equipped with a
> > trailer hitch.
>
> > It also would seem to be a fairly economic plan in that you can buy a
> > lot more house for your money with a 5th wheel compared to a
> > motorhome. When you get there, the house is disconnected leaving a
> > 4X4 truck to pull you out of farm fields and run around town.
>
> > I'd suspect that a shorter RV with wheels near the aft hitch would
> > give the best chance of working well.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Utah allows up to 65 ft without a permit and my truck, 5th wheel, and
16 ft ATV trailer combination is within this limit but a glider
trailer is a lot longer than 16 ft. Also, not all states allow
multiple trailers to be towed.

Steve,

The crew and I looked at doing this before we bought our motorhome two
years ago. You can't do it, because you have a trailer pulling a
trailer, and you can't get a trailer hitch put on a 5th wheel.

2NO

Thanks for the input on the 65 ft limit. I'm thinking that still may
be workable though. The glider trailer is 29 ft and distance from the
nose of my truck to the center of the bed is 15 ft. That would leave
21 ft for RV measured from the center of the fifth wheel aft -- a
smallish RV trailer but not too bad.

The biggest question in my mind is how would this menagerie tow at
highway speed?

On Mar 26, 2:16 pm, "Steve Koerner" > wrote:
> Thanks for the input on the 65 ft limit. I'm thinking that still may
> be workable though. The glider trailer is 29 ft and distance from the
> nose of my truck to the center of the bed is 15 ft. That would leave
> 21 ft for RV measured from the center of the fifth wheel aft -- a
> smallish RV trailer but not too bad.
>
> The biggest question in my mind is how would this menagerie tow at
> highway speed?

I have seen a photo of someone doing what the OP suggested. I believe
the pictures are in the photos section of the 1-26 associations
website.

Steve
Also along with the length law, you must have active brakes on all
trailing
units if more than one trailer. Not just surge brakes but something
like
electric brakes. I think the limit in western states for doubles is
30' per
unit. The longer the power unit's wheel base the better and lighter
trailer
to rear. I'd go with at least 3/4 ton or more.
Russ


Steve Koerner wrote:
> Thanks for the input on the 65 ft limit. I'm thinking that still may
> be workable though. The glider trailer is 29 ft and distance from the
> nose of my truck to the center of the bed is 15 ft. That would leave
> 21 ft for RV measured from the center of the fifth wheel aft -- a
> smallish RV trailer but not too bad.
>
> The biggest question in my mind is how would this menagerie tow at
> highway speed?

Just forgo the double trailer issue. Buy a camping
trailer to pull behind you tow vehicle and fly a Sparrow
Hawk. Transport the Sparrow Hawk in a roof rack...

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

At 18:42 26 March 2007, wrote:
>On Mar 26, 2:16 pm, 'Steve Koerner' wrote:
>> Thanks for the input on the 65 ft limit. I'm thinking
>>that still may
>> be workable though. The glider trailer is 29 ft and
>>distance from the
>> nose of my truck to the center of the bed is 15 ft.
>> That would leave
>> 21 ft for RV measured from the center of the fifth
>>wheel aft -- a
>> smallish RV trailer but not too bad.
>>
>> The biggest question in my mind is how would this
>>menagerie tow at
>> highway speed?
>
>I have seen a photo of someone doing what the OP suggested.
> I believe
>the pictures are in the photos section of the 1-26
>associations
>website.
>
>

No such pic is presently in the 1-26 association gallery. Lots of
nice 1-26 pictures though.

Russ,

Thank you for that input. Is this rule regarding brakes a national
standard of some sort or is this a rule that pertains to operation in
some partcular states? I wouldn't want to have to mess with my nice
surge brakes on the glider trailer unless I really have to.

What is wrong with surge brakes? Why is no braking
better?


At 19:54 26 March 2007, Steve Koerner wrote:
>Russ,
>
>Thank you for that input. Is this rule regarding brakes
>a national
>standard of some sort or is this a rule that pertains
>to operation in
>some partcular states? I wouldn't want to have to
>mess with my nice
>surge brakes on the glider trailer unless I really
>have to.
>
>

Tuno wrote:
> Steve,
>
> The crew and I looked at doing this before we bought our motorhome two
> years ago. You can't do it, because you have a trailer pulling a
> trailer, and you can't get a trailer hitch put on a 5th wheel.

It is clearly legal in some states, I've seen pickups with 5th wheel
campers pulling boat trailers in Nevada and Utah...

Marc

"Steve Koerner" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Russ,
>
> Thank you for that input. Is this rule regarding brakes a national
> standard of some sort or is this a rule that pertains to operation in
> some partcular states? I wouldn't want to have to mess with my nice
> surge brakes on the glider trailer unless I really have to.
>

What you do, is to go to the nearest truck stop - they have book that lists
all of the requirements (lengths, number of trailers, etc) for each state.
It may also be specific as to brakes as well - it won't hurt to ask.

Note: Have you ever tried to back a tandem trailer before?

It can be done, but probably not by you or me.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

Double and triple trailering is legal in Utah as long as it is under
the 65 ft, and at least double trailering is legal in Idaho, Arizona,
Wyoming, Nevada and for non-resident rigs, in California (apparently
Ca. residents cannot pull two trailers but I can in their state). I
contacted the DMVs of each of these states to find out if it was legal
and was given the go ahead. I have been hauling my 4 ATVs on a
trailer through these states behind my 5th wheel camping trailer for
50,000 miles during the last 6 years. I have trailer brakes on the
5th wheel but not on the ATV trailer. Since the ATV trailer has a
single axle and weighs less than 750 pounds empty, I do not even need
a license on that trailer. I generally set the cruise control at
70-75mph on those sections of road that allow it but if the road is
rough or windy I'll back off of that. The 5th wheel tows like it is
not even there but the back trailer being a tow behind, is not quite
as stable. The stability of a tow behind trailer is somewhat
dependent on how much tougue weight it has so I put the heavier ATVs
on the front. In order for this arrangement to work very well, the
middle trailer has to be much heavier than the back trailer - just
like the truck or car is much heavier than the trailer it pulls. 5th
wheel trailers, on the other hand can be heavier than the pulling
vehicle and still be stable. I have backed the rig up twice, once to
see if I could do it and once to turn around on a dirt road that I
couldn't get through. I do however, prefer the big parking lots to
turn around in.

On Mar 26, 6:59 pm, "dwrobel" > wrote:
> Double and triple trailering is legal in Utah as long as it is under
> the 65 ft, and at least double trailering is legal in Idaho, Arizona,
> Wyoming, Nevada and for non-resident rigs, in California (apparently
> Ca. residents cannot pull two trailers but I can in their state). I
> contacted the DMVs of each of these states to find out if it was legal
> and was given the go ahead. I have been hauling my 4 ATVs on a
> trailer through these states behind my 5th wheel camping trailer for
> 50,000 miles during the last 6 years. I have trailer brakes on the
> 5th wheel but not on the ATV trailer. Since the ATV trailer has a
> single axle and weighs less than 750 pounds empty, I do not even need
> a license on that trailer. I generally set the cruise control at
> 70-75mph on those sections of road that allow it but if the road is
> rough or windy I'll back off of that. The 5th wheel tows like it is
> not even there but the back trailer being a tow behind, is not quite
> as stable. The stability of a tow behind trailer is somewhat
> dependent on how much tougue weight it has so I put the heavier ATVs
> on the front. In order for this arrangement to work very well, the
> middle trailer has to be much heavier than the back trailer - just
> like the truck or car is much heavier than the trailer it pulls. 5th
> wheel trailers, on the other hand can be heavier than the pulling
> vehicle and still be stable. I have backed the rig up twice, once to
> see if I could do it and once to turn around on a dirt road that I
> couldn't get through. I do however, prefer the big parking lots to
> turn around in.

I have looked into it as well here in Ontario.
75 feet is legal here. In New York State it is not.
Ontario registered rigs can transit through NY State and other States.
Udo

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:
> "Steve Koerner" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Russ,
> >
> > Thank you for that input. Is this rule regarding brakes a national
> > standard of some sort or is this a rule that pertains to operation in
> > some partcular states? I wouldn't want to have to mess with my nice
> > surge brakes on the glider trailer unless I really have to.
> >
>
> What you do, is to go to the nearest truck stop - they have book that lists
> all of the requirements (lengths, number of trailers, etc) for each state.
> It may also be specific as to brakes as well - it won't hurt to ask.
>
> Note: Have you ever tried to back a tandem trailer before?
>
> It can be done, but probably not by you or me.
>
> --
I've spent the last 35 years in the trucking industry, the first 20
pulling doubles in
the western states. First of all you probably don't want to eat that
truck stop food.
Second when you push on the brake pedal and your rear trailer becomes
quite
visable, as in trying to pass you because you don't have a good
breaking
balance on wet or icy roads. Or it is pushing you because the're not
adjusted
up tight enough it's very unnerving. All of the (big) trucks you see
out there have a
trailer hand valve so you can apply trailer only braking. More than
once I've
streightened out a bad situation with a little application of trailer
braking, where
as foot aplication would have caused a jack knife. I always avoided
backing
whenever possible when in doubt walk it out first before you're forced
to break your
set up and drive them out one at a time.
See California Motor Vehicle Ch.3 26301 through 26458 pay special
attention to
26458 c 4 for combinations. My take on this is if you have a surge
brake on these
unit(s) it's legal if your breakaway is funtional.

Steve Koerner wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm wondering if anyone had ever tried using a fifth wheel RV to pull
> a glider trailer.
>
> This would make an ideal setup for going to glider contests if the
> trailing dynamics were workable. I did a cursory look on the web
> yesterday and found a 30 ft fifth wheel that did come equipped with a
> trailer hitch.
>
> It also would seem to be a fairly economic plan in that you can buy a
> lot more house for your money with a 5th wheel compared to a
> motorhome. When you get there, the house is disconnected leaving a
> 4X4 truck to pull you out of farm fields and run around town.

Bill Seed used to pull his glider trailer from Kansas to Nevada behind
his short (20 feet or so) 5th wheel, and it seemed to work well for him.
California residents might require a special driver's license, as they
are picky about some things.

In any case, the glider trailer will be almost invisible to the driver,
so I'd suggest the 5th wheel have a camera on the back end to watch the
trailer. The combination is likely to have a LOT of tires, as many 12,
and by the time you figured out the trailer had a flat tire, you might
be towing it on the axle on that side. So, in addition, I suggest a tire
pressure monitor system for the truck, 5th wheel, AND the glider trailer
to avoid unnecessary excitement.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org